How to Deal with The Dark Elves Hydra with Our High Elves Reavers
Elaithnir from the Ulthuan.net proposes a really good tactical idea in his post titled: The Reaver Conga
Well, I was browsing through the anti-hydra tactics discussed over here previously and I came across a rather interesting use of Reavers (or any fast cavalry for that matter) : Large Monster hunting.
The reasoning is as follows: Buy a unit of five Reavers with a champion and a musician. Move behind the enemy hydra/stegadon/Greater Daemon, ending your move in a long 1×5 line, with the champion at the front. Charge the enemy in the rear next turn. The enemy can’t challenge, and can only attack the champion, thus netting a maximum of 1 CR. The Reavers have 3CR, and thus win by 2 (Rear + outnumber). Hopefully the enemy breaks and the Reavers can run them down.What I like about this is that even if the Reavers fail to break the Hydra, they tie it up for a few turns at least, and should they survive and break, the hydra must pursue, back to the enemy deployment zone. This could even work against a large block of infantry with hatred.
Obviously only usable if the enemy can’t challenge.What do you think about this idea? Workable?
I personally like it. It is simple and relies on a formation not some special trick or magical item that you would waste extra points on.
9 Comments, Comment or Ping
Imrith
Hi!
Only a thing…your idea is good…BUT: there is not a rule in warhammer that sais that when two units, in this case the cavalry and the Hydra, are involved in a combat you HAVE to put the maximum number of miniature in contact between them? I mean, you really can attack with a “line” of miniature?
May 6th, 2009
Loremaster
Yes, Imrith that is right, but I believe this tactic is reforming your Reavers in single file so there is no other miniature to also get involve cos everyone is behind!
May 9th, 2009
Ed
I am a little confused by the idea. I’ve been out of the game for a couple of years, but re-reading WFB 7th edition, especially the rules on combat and the rules on champions, it specifically states that extra wounds are carried into the unit. In other words, you can stick them in a long line with only the champion in base contact, but the Hydra can attack and kill the whole unit if it rolls well enough. Is there a rule I am missing somewhere and if so, can someone point me to it?
Thanks.
Aug 19th, 2009
Silver
The rules say if enough wounds are dealt to the unit to kill more models than there are, it transfers to the champion – which usually has to be targetted separately.
So if you can only target the Champion, wounds go on the champion only, not transfered to the Rank and Files. And since its not a challenge, max of CR is 1 for the enemy and you started with 3.
This trick wouldn’t work against a character on Stegadon, since he’d challenge you and the Stegadon would have 3 S6 attacks (though at WS3) plus the character’s attacks.
Also note a Stegadon is US10 at all times so you only win by 2, but its Stubborn on Ld6 Coldblooded, which means it is very likely to pass its test if a BSB is around.
Reaver champion is expensive too x;
Sep 19th, 2009
Ed
Thanks for the response, however, the two parts of the statement do not interconnect. The rule is saying that if enough wounds are caused on the unit, the champion would have to be removed as a casualty. This is simply indicating that if a player elects to hit the unit, rather than targetting a specific model in base contact, the champion would end up being removed as a casualty.
The next part of the statement says: “so if you can only target the champion”. Who says you can only target the champion? Just because he is the only model in base to base contact. The rules make no specific judgement on this. For example one could easily read the line: “…champions are not characters but members of their regiment and always fight as part of it, moving, attacking, fleeing and pursuing alongisde the unit as a whole.”
On this basis one could simply say: “I am attacking the unit” and the attacked player could simple choose to leave the champion alive if not enough wounds were caused by the Hydra, but the Hydra would probably still win the combat. This may sound odd given the unit of cavalry’s arrangement, but then the unit is in an odd arrangement. This is we get into the dangers of is it realistic. It is not realistic that the champion would survive, whilst at the front, when the rest of the unit is killed. It is also not realistic, however, that the Hydra would only kill the champion and ignore the rest of the line of cavalry.
So, we return to the rules, which as has been illustrated, do not really make the situation clear. I shall canvas some views, but I am pretty certain that no club or tournament player I know would agree with the interpretation that the unit and champion can ‘trick’ the Hydra this way.
Ha-well, the inevitable and never ending loopholes that exist in a game like Warhammer – makes for interesting discussions!
Sep 20th, 2009
Tony
Alright, it seems you all missed what he was saying. If the Fast Cav unit is lined up in a 1×5 formation with the champ in front, then the first rank is only the champ. The rules state that if there is nothing other than a champ or hero to attack, you can ONLY kill the champ or hero and any extra wounds will not bleed over to the unit.
So, max they can only kill one model, hence getting only 1CR. Since a unit of 4 fast cav would have 4 models but 2US each, they have 8US and the hydra only has 7. So you outnumber and have the rear. They did 1 wound so you beat them by 2. The beastmasters have lead 8 so now lead 6, so good chance it breaks.
Jan 25th, 2010
Phil
Fine in theory guys but BRB pg75 2nd paragraph last sentence. You don’t have to nominate in this case which models you’re attacking. Champions in a unit are not considered characters (you can find that reference). So if you charged the Hydra all hits flow into the unit. It would be different if you had a character at the head of that charge.
If you tried that in a tournament I’d dock you a sports point. The umpire will tell you also that you might fool a little girl but girls don’t play warhammer ; )
Mar 31st, 2010
kyle
Yea that wouldn’t work… just say im going to attack the unit becuase the hydra will wound you more then once along and the wounds wouldnt disappear they will carry over to the unit.
Jun 9th, 2010
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